John G. Clemons, M.S., APR, ABC, SCMP, IABC, has spent decades leading in corporate communications, higher education and the broader communications profession.

In our conversation on the Taking the Lead podcast, Clemons reflects on how trust must be earned, how credibility is constantly tested, and why courage can carry a different weight for Black and Brown leaders. The discussion explores the leaders who shaped his thinking, the role of judgment in leadership, and why not everyone who excels in their work should automatically lead a team.

Here are excerpts from the full video interview:

Is leadership essentially the same whether you’re in a corporation, running your own consultancy or teaching in higher education?

Leadership begins with building relationships with the people you work with. That’s not just the executives, but employees as well. People need to know who you are, feel comfortable with you and feel that you fit.

Active listening is critical. You listen to what people are telling you, but you also listen for what they’re not telling you. There’s nuance in conversations, and you can often sense whether people trust you or they don’t.

There’s collaborative decision-making: You gather input, listen carefully and then make a decision with all of that information. And you have to lean in with courage. You can’t always say yes. Sometimes you have to be the lone dissenting voice.

But you don’t say “No, because I feel…” You say “No, because I think…” People want to know you’re being strategic and thoughtful in the responses you give.

Higher education is different mainly in pace. The stress is still there, but things move slower and change takes longer.

Who are the three leaders who most influenced you, and why?

I would start with Paul Robeson. He was a Rhodes Scholar, a lettered athlete, a singer with an incredible baritone voice, an actor, a writer and a speaker. I’ve always considered him a Renaissance man because there seemed to be no limits to what the mind and body could do. He also spoke his mind. At that time, a Black man speaking openly, particularly about politics, faced people who looked for opportunities to bring him down.

The second would be Barack and Michelle Obama. I’m a huge fan of both of them because they act in tandem. They have critics, but they deflect and move on while continuing to make a positive difference.

The third is Ray Day of Stagwell Marketing. I served with him on the PRSA board when he was chair. He’s very strategic, approachable, listens carefully to different viewpoints and is direct without being harsh. I admire that leadership style a great deal.

What’s a leadership mistake that taught you an important lesson?

Early on, I believed team loyalty was instantaneous. I thought when you walked into an organization, the team would immediately gravitate toward you, support you and trust you. That doesn’t happen. You have to build trust. You coach people, give them assignments that lean toward their strengths and encourage them over time.

I had a difficult experience at a nonprofit with an assistant whose work was mediocre and continued to decline. When I finally had to let her go, I discovered she had gathered the entire team in a room because she felt she needed them there to protect her. It was shocking. But it reinforced the lesson that trust must be built and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.

DEI efforts are under fire in some places. What role should leaders play?

Organizations don’t need to trumpet what they’re doing. They just need to do it. DEI should be ingrained in the way an organization operates. It shouldn’t be treated as a separate initiative. At the end of the day, it’s about treating people fairly and giving everyone an opportunity to succeed.

I also dislike the word minority. It comes from the Latin word minor, meaning less or smaller. When you use that word, you’re already positioning a group as lesser. In my mind, that word shouldn’t exist. Just treat people fairly.

Last summer at a seminar of alumni of Syracuse University’s S.I. Newhouse School of Communications Management, while I was presenting on courage in leadership, you courageously and generously pointed out that exhibiting courage in some organizations is different for African Americans and other people of color. Could you expand on your point-of-view about that?

A good friend of ours, Charlene Wheeless, often says, “You are enough.” But for many diverse executives, particularly Black executives, it often feels different. It feels like you have to be more. You have to do more. You have to be better. You have to show that you know what you know.

I’ve been in meetings where an African American executive shares an idea and it doesn’t get much reaction. Then a few minutes later someone else says the same thing and suddenly it’s seen as a great idea. That happens.

So when you’re asked for your opinion, you may pause longer before responding. You’re thinking about how your comment will be perceived. Do I speak now? Do I stay quiet? If I stay quiet, will they think I’m disengaged? Leadership guidance isn’t always one size fits all.

What leadership idea have you heard that you believe isn’t entirely true?

The idea that everyone should lead a team. Many people assume that once you lead people, you’ve graduated to the next level of your career. But leadership is complex. There are many intricacies to building and managing a team.

Some people are excellent individual contributors but aren’t suited to lead others. I don’t think everyone should lead a team, and that assumption hasn’t proven true in my experience.

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Ken Jacobs, PCC, CPC, ELI-MP, is a sought-after executive coach helping PR and communications leaders, agency owners, and senior executives lead with confidence, inspire their teams, and drive lasting business growth. As principal of Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching, he draws on more than 25 years in agency leadership. To the leaders who shape the PR world, Ken is a trusted partner in unlocking their full leadership potential. Connect with him at www.jacobscomm.com, [email protected], on LinkedIn, or on Instagram.